Why young people feel excluded from expert climate conversations - Jonathan Nobrega, youth environmental advocate

Jonathan argues that climate discussions need to move from experts to the various diverse communities, questions why so many urban young people feel disconnected from the environmental space, emphasises the need to normalise the talk about the environment and brings examples of making talking about climate trendy.

Jonathan Nobrega is an environmental advocate and sustainability educator based in London. He is best known for his work as a Youth Project Coordinator at the London Wildlife Trust, where he focuses on making nature recovery more inclusive for underrepresented and diverse youth. His journey into nature began with the realisation that the sector lacked diversity — it didn’t feel right that the organisations leading nature recovery often felt exclusionary. Motivated by this, he has founded WIld Collective, a youth-led nature society, contributed to academic and non-curricular teaching, and built partnerships between environmental organisations and youth-focused institutions.

NOTES

4:10: Sustainability as the second least diverse sector in the UK - in the discussions we should be involving entire communities that get affected by climate change

6:02: WWT - Wildfowl and Wetlands Trust: https://www.wwt.org.uk/
London Wildlife Trust: https://www.wildlondon.org.uk/
Own initiative: Started Wild Collective, my own grassroots movements while I was at University

7:28: Why people from diverse backgrounds feel excluded from environmental discussions

7:48: exploring how Amerindians think about space, in contrast to middle age, white people

9:40: Why the export lens alienates people from getting involved

10:40: dissertation about how young people in London could be better engaged in environmental discussions

13:36: feeling powerless in front of climate change. It seems like a huge mountain to climb and feel so disconnected for so many young people. Also they feel it is not for them

16:05: Society applauds money, power, wealth, while environment and living frugally is not appreciated in the modern age

16:35: Climate anxiety stems from the education

17:00: how social media presenting a false image about oneself leads to detachment of our roots

18:10: having the things of what society expects you whilst being environmentally friendly at the same time, it seems to be a trade-off. 

19:00: Launching the Wild Collective at the University of Roehampton for getting students out of the classroom and connect with nature

21:00: the role of big nature organisations in normalising the discussion about nature

22:22: how to combine love of sports with immersion in nature

23:50: the idealistic picture of Platon talking with his students under a giant fig tree

25:18: Hopes related to recently launching the Natural History GCSE and have nature connection within the classroom

25:45: the importance of the University of Roehampton offering interdisciplinary classes in environment and climate change

27:20 The London Wildlife Trust offering diversity traineeship for young people, and the Keeping it Wild Collective for running free events for young people in London to get involved with nature

28:40: reducing the barriers of entry to engagement with nature

29:44: about the importance of diversification within the large environmental organisations

31:10: competition or collaboration between the small and larger environmental organisations?

32:00: Encourage young people that they have the power to make change. One should not be afraid of asking for advice or being a disruptor

33:50: Rapid fire quiz:

• Oxygene - for an environmental humanities perspective what matters is who has the most oxygen to speak and exercise power
• Overconsumption - we are all guilty of that!
• Oceans - wetland and waters are most powerful! The best way to think about oceans is to engage with them - go, observe and interact

39:50: about green careers, making a living in sustainability - massive opportunities exist

40:45: If it is the fastest growing sector, then why is it so difficult to get jobs in green industries? Many of the jobs require a lot of hours, sometime non-paid

42:00: how to find funding opportunities for green jobs?

43:32: how volunteering helps your career - it can help you set you apart from everyone else

46:20 My utopia is to help changing our thinking by looking at the impetus our decisions make

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This was Gabor Sarlos, with Ready, Steady, Green!

podcasting: Ready, Steady, Green
news and views: LinkedIn
action: COPmitment

Transcript

Jonathan Nobrega 0:16

I'm half Guayanese, and when I went home to Guayana for the first time last year and kind of explored how the Amerindians work at the space, there was so much knowledge there, and there was so much that they knew about the space and the savannas and the jungles that it made you feel so disconnected as a city boy from London, understanding like how our city works from an environmental space. I kept going to events to kind of widen my lens, and it was just elderly white middle class people going to these events, and you feel very much like an outsider. And that thing circulates around and is to see people that get interested, but it's not reflective upon the community that is representative of London. London is one of the most diverse cities in the world, um, and it's about including everyone. The next step is to try and kind of normalize that so that the stigma of going outside can kind of be erased altogether so that young people can talk about climate change issues and talk about the nature being outdoors in something that is normalized. So if you are looking to get into conservation for a state, you definitely do a little bit of research on Google because there are funding opportunities and even scholarships, for example, that can kind of help you to get that step up, to kind of get put that carrier down for you. Um and again, it kind of comes to talking to people and the connections you make whilst you're in the sector to kind of get your first foot in the door. And a lot of it, as always, is the case, is getting to know people.

Gabor Sarlos 2:23

Welcome to the latest episode of Ready Steady Green. In this podcast, we're discussing challenges and opportunities of turning climate awareness to climate action. In other words, making sustainability sustainable. We'll be focusing primarily on young people as they are the ones who are and will be most affected by the global challenges of today and tomorrow, and hopefully they will be the ones whose actions can change the current trajectory. This is not intended to be a specialist podcast to sustainability experts. Instead, it aims to broaden the discourse and help everyone realize how closely the topics of sustainability, climate, health, quality of life, technological development are all connected. The episodes of Ready Steady Green aim to inspire everyone to step up and step out in their lives and in their communities. This is our last episode before the summer break. In fact, summer has already broken out in a way, and I'm very pleased to welcome today Jonathan Nobrega in our studio. Jonathan is an environmental advocate and sustainability trainer and educator and a young engagement specialist based in London. Instead of a more detailed introduction, I would like to welcome you, Jonathan, in the studio and ask you to say a few words about yourself in relation to your profile as a sustainability engagement expert.

Jonathan Nobrega 3:52

Yeah, great to be here on board. Thanks for inviting me on. Yeah, so I'm Jonathan. I describe myself, I suppose, as an environmental engager at the moment, trying to get new communities into the space and trying to diversify what we would currently call, I suppose, the environmental sector more widely, as it's currently the second least diverse sector in the UK as a whole. And I think it's very important that if we talk about climate change, we involve entire communities that are going to be affected with it. It shouldn't just be an exclusive issue. And that's something that really bugged me as I kind of entered the space as a as a young age. My kind of first introduction to climate change as a main issue was kind of through schooling. And then I had a particular passion for environmental ethics, which kind of became more prominent through my university life. And then when I was thinking I can actually make a career out of this, I just looked at the career prospects, and it just seemed that it was particularly demographic dominating the space, and it wasn't something that I particularly would have felt at home with, I suppose. So I can imagine a lot of other people like me going into the space would have felt the same. So it just seemed like a big barrier to break down to get what you would call kind of like a normal job within the sector. So I always proclaim I'm not an environmental expert, I don't have a zoology background, I don't know every plant from each other. But I think in some ways that's a benefit because not many people do, and it's about learning together. Well, throughout my entire work, I think if I don't understand something, another person's experiencing the same thing. So, how can we put two and two together and make it you know engaging for both of us to work out new things about the environment and new ways to kind of learn with it? So that's what I very much do in my work. I've now gone to work with the WWT and the London Wildlife Trust, kind of city-based engagement roles, particularly working with young people. And that kind of sprung up from my kind of grassroots work where I set up my own organization called the Wild Collective while I was at university, kind of engaging with young people from the university who perhaps wouldn't consider getting into the space, trying to target them. And that was very much my kind of first foray into what engagement methods work and what don't, which I can then go and kind of feed into my career going forwards.

Gabor Sarlos 6:34

Well, you brought up a couple of very interesting points, and also you demonstrated some modesty when you said that you're not a climate expert or a sustainability expert, but you do have a strong background, environmental humanities, which is a very important element, I believe, in any discussion of climate change and sustainability. Perhaps one of the problems is that for a long time the discourse has been dominated by perhaps experts and scientists lacking the actual perspective of what everyday people or what society or most of the society would know or not know about this topic. So I think you bring a very important set of expertise to the table. You became interested in this profession and career possibility when you noted there is a lack of diversity in this area. How did you know that and what does it mean specifically?

Jonathan Nobrega 7:28

To be honest, it ties in with what you said earlier in terms of the kind of space being led and directed by experts, either within the scientific field or or kind of more widely. And I'm half Guyanese, and when I went home to Guyana for the first time last year and kind of explored how the Amerindians worked the space, there was so much knowledge there, and there was so much that they knew about the space and the savannas and the jungles that it made you feel so disconnected as a city boy from London, understanding like how our city works from an environmental space. But I suppose to kind of back to the question, it kind of makes you feel think why is that? And again, it's because there is very little representation within the space environmentally. I mean, I remember going kind of when I first wanted to explore going down the environmental route, I kept going to events to kind of widen my lens, and it was just elderly, white, middle class people going to these events, and you feel very much like an outsider. And a lot of young people would would relate to that, and they ultimately hold positions of power, and that then circulates around and it's the same people that get interested, but it's not reflective upon the community that is representative of London. I mean, London is one of the most diverse cities in the world, as about including everyone. But this is not to say in a million years that people of colour or people from diverse communities are not involved in nature, but have and always have been, as I said, a lot of knowledge comes from communities like home who who would have had this knowledge in the first instance. It's just that they've not been given that opportunity or they've not been felt to feel welcome in the space, and is it's deeply frustrating. I mean, people talk about climate change as a big issue, but when people ask me what the most important issue here is well, obviously it is climate change, but it's the fact that people aren't engaged with it in the way that that would allow for action to happen. And I thought that disconnect is quite troubling because I speak to a lot of my friends and they feel like it's a non-issue because someone else in a in a big skyscraper is going to sort up issues for them because they've got the kind of expert lens and gaze on it, which you don't need to have that kind of expert lens and gaze to be able to make a meaningful impact on the on the wider environmental issue.

Gabor Sarlos 9:58

One of the occasions where we met was the London Student Sustainability Conference last year in 2025, where you won the prize for the uh most original or most creative uh poster presentation. Was it the same topic that you covered there, if I recall it, was very similar or along the same lines? And and if so, what was the reaction from other students there?

Jonathan Nobrega 10:23

That work that I presented at the conference was based widely on my dissertation I did at my master's level, which kind of looked at how environmental organizations in the UK could better engage that young and diverse urban demographic in London. Because I think it's really important that the big organizations hold an example for the wider population as how environmental engagement can be best done. So it explored a lot of issues that they could help to alleviate, a lot of barriers that they could break down, looking at things like safety within urban environments, geographic access within the London area, race and ethnicity, and how that could have problems with people going into the space, and also kind of more societal expectations amongst people and where environment ranks upon that. So I think that those kind of four factors are something which these environmental organizations need to look at before they even step out to make that kind of engagement with diverse communities in the first instance. It's interesting to kind of reflect upon the research in practice and to see whether that whether that is possible from inside an organization.

Gabor Sarlos 11:37

At the sport at the conference, what was then the reaction from fellow students? Did it resonate with them or was this something which they had not experienced earlier?

Jonathan Nobrega 11:48

Yeah, well, I think the beauty of the conference was that it's very diverse in the sense of the amount of approaches that were going into the environmental space, I suppose. We had people kind of giving their presentations of mathematics and how that can solve the issue, giving presentations on the scientific aspect of it. So it was very interesting being in that kind of that diverse mix. And I think one of the reasons why my work kind of stood out a little bit more is the fact that it connected all of those different disciplines together, and it's the fact that it kind of shed light on the fact that if the diverse communities and disciplines come together, there's a lot of change that can be made from it. They shouldn't just be let down to the scientists to kind of work it out because they're not going to do that themselves, it's not their speciality. So I think so often in the environmental space, it's it's it's not diverse and it's not encompassing enough to be able to make a societal or a very impactful change. No matter what background they came from.

Gabor Sarlos 12:59

I see. Now, when you meet other young people like yourself, encouraging them to become volunteers, or uh you are sitting together in a session around some exciting uh sustainability topics, what are the main concerns of young people in relation to climate and the climate crisis?

Jonathan Nobrega 13:22

I think feeling powerless, I think is perhaps the main factor here. And I think because you know environmental change, climate change is such a big issue, and the media kind of presents it in a in a worldly light, in the sense that we've just gone through, sat through a few heat waves going on, and this is something that affects populations widely. So when you think of little or me, in that what can I actually do to make a change? It seems like a huge mountain to climb and feel so disconnected for so many young people. That's something on the forefront of their minds. And another thing is the kind of and particularly with young people, they go through a stage of identity formation when they're trying to find their identity and and themselves growing up within their lives. And I think at the moment, environmental, the environmental space doesn't tap into the things that they feel associate with them. And I think that's the reason why so many people feel disengaged with it because it doesn't feel culturally aligned with them. And I think that's the problem why the big gap for young people to get into because they just they just feel like it's not relevant for them or something that they want to align their values with because it's held by people or it is presented in a light that wouldn't suit their identity formation growing up. So I think, yeah, that combination of feeling powerless and maybe it's just not for me kind of leads to a point where young people perhaps wouldn't consider it.

Gabor Sarlos 14:54

But at the same time, they feel very concerned. The young people I meet in classroom or outside of it, and when we talk about these issues, they really, really share their concerns. They they understood the gravity of the problems, and it is a bit of a mixed picture, isn't it? Or or two sides of the coin. So on the one hand, concern, anxiety, helplessness, maybe, but on the other hand, really in many of them I find openness to learn, openness to join forces or do something about it. Would you agree to this vision of mixed picture?

Jonathan Nobrega 15:33

Absolutely, yeah. I mean, the kind of helplessness aspect, I think, you know, ties in with the the climate anxiety aspect of it, in the sense that it's like where do you start? It's such a big issue. And I think a lot of young people go through education as well, hearing about all of the problems climate change will present. And I think maybe perhaps there's a combination of the fact that the things that society kind of applauds, whether it be money, power, wealth, those things are kind of put on a pedestal. Whereas environment and living frugally and prudence and all of these kind of values perhaps aren't raised out as much in the modern age. I think, particularly in terms of like social media, it's about kind of presenting yourself the best as possible and kind of keeping up this image all the time, wearing the best clothes, looking the best way. I think all of these things combined create a perfect storm where people feel detached from the kind of roots of what creates all these things, which is obviously the environment. And that then leads to the kind of climate anxiety because the two and two don't seem to go together. It seems like you can't be having the things of what society expects you while being environmentally friendly at the same time. It seems to be a trade-off. You either be environmentally friendly and go down that route of you know being incredibly frugal and do living environmentally, being vegan and all these kind of things, or you just go down the other route and try and achieve what the capitalist world we believe in now is the good thing to do. So I think it seems like a trade-off in young people's minds. And I think it's just finding out the way which is which seems most plausible to them and offering them opportunities is something that would turn minds and and make things more kind of palatable for them to continue with.

Gabor Sarlos 17:23

If I understand correctly what you're saying, is that the environmental crisis and youth attitudes cannot be separated from issues of power and social injustice and their position in society?

Jonathan Nobrega 17:36

Absolutely. Yeah, the two and two go together. There's a conflict of interest, I think, in young people.

Gabor Sarlos 17:42

Well, that actually formulates quite a task ahead of us, doesn't it? I mean, how to overcome this massive issue by actually hitting both uh birds with the same stone or addressing two both issues at the same time, how can we create a world which is both environmentally and socially just and fair? That is an enormous task. It's an absolutely enormous task. But when I talk to you and and young people like you, I always see uh light at the end of the tunnel because one of the things, just to turn a little bit the discussion from this doomsday uh scenario, one of the things which I really like a lot where I saw examples where you underlined the importance of hands-on activities and hands-on experience of uh students with nature or resources coming from nature. Can you share some experience here or some examples?

Jonathan Nobrega 18:39

So, a lot of my work, as I say, kind of the initial society I launched was called the Wild Collective, and it was about getting university students from Rohampton, which we both know very well, but to kind of use the environment as a source, not necessarily as a kind of preachy, let's go outside, learn about nature kind of way, but a way for them to kind of step out of the classroom, take a walk. We did a walk every Sunday, explore kind of what nature London has locally, but it's also a good chance for them to meet new friends, get outside, experience the benefits of nature connection, which kind of reduces societatively proven to reduce stress levels, make you feel more positive, be uplifting, lots of physical benefits to it as well. And again, it kind of blends with that kind of cultural and social aspect in the sense that they're going, having a good time, making new friends, experiencing something new. But the second kind of aspect is that is oh, they actually left learning something new about the environment as well. So it's a way of kind of bridging the gap together to making them think about the environment in a way that is more, as I say, palatable and more kind of aspiring for them. And that's a technique that's not just used by me, it's you know, it's very much in the grassroots space. There's a lot of these organizations that are kind of using this technique in getting more young people outdoors and experiencing the environment, and that's also uplifting and positive at this stage. And I think the next step is to try and now kind of normalize that so that the stigma of going outside can kind of be erased altogether, so that young people can talk about climate change issue and talk about nature being outdoors in something that is normalized. Because a lot of the times when you talk to it to a young person who's perhaps not connected to the issues, they say, Oh, that's not for me, or oh, that's that's a bit weird. That's for like that's for David Attenborough type people. It's about getting rid of that and saying, actually, this can be discussed at a very normal level, like it's something normal for young people to do. And I think we're getting there, but it's now time for the top, it's time for the big nature organization at the top to take heed of that and to kind of platform them so that we can normalize the discussion of this amongst young people more widely.

Gabor Sarlos 21:00

Similarly to how sports has actually reached already an important stage, do something similar with nature as such, and how to make it fashionable to be outside and in nature. Because if I understood correctly, you mentioned that being outside or outdoors in itself is not something that much pursued by young people, or I might be wrong.

Jonathan Nobrega 21:26

Let's say you can talk to a friend about sport very easily. It's something that's you know kind of widely culturally accessible, given you to say music, fashion, any of these kind of interests. But I think when it comes to nature and the outdoors, it's something people worry about and feel a bit intimidated about because they feel like they might not know enough about it. So it's kind of making this kind of hobby sector way of thinking something more normalized and something that people can see on social media and there's good there'll be good content about it to make it more disgustable. And there's there's what good work going on about this already. You know, I I know people who are kind of combining football with birdwatching and and kind of making sure that people who play sport kind of understand that nature kind of underpins it. I mean, how many times have we heard in the World Cup about poor poor pitches? They're all ripped up because of you know that they've got good quality in the sun and we have drought. You know, football is affected. Any sport is affected by climate change. The Winter Olympics, we've not got enough snow. Yeah, it's about making people aware of that so that the two and two go together. And that's the perfect kind of blend of culture and blend of thinking that would then create a diverse discussion on the environmental debate and make it more normalized and push action for it.

Gabor Sarlos 22:50

I love that. In fact, just recently I was thinking quite a bit about how to bring more of the education uh outside of the classroom, and I don't mean outside just in itself, but outside into nature. Obviously, some programs and some subject areas lend themselves to this, so that's not a big thing for a zoology course uh or life sciences uh program to have classes outside, but some of the traditional indoors subject areas, business, law, how do you bring some of those classes out into the wild or at least into the green? And the picture that uh actually initiated this thought was that I saw a painting from 2000 years ago when Platon was discussing philosophy with his students and they were sitting under a huge fig tree. And I just imagined now that must be very inspiring to sit with your students under a huge tree and just discuss about uh some of the essential questions of life. Maybe in my next academic uh career thoughts, uh I will think about this the business education or other uh types of education outside of the classroom and in nature itself.

Jonathan Nobrega 24:13

Yeah, I think you're completely right. When I reflect upon it myself as a young person growing up in London, through my throughout my educational career, I never heard the word nature connection once. I I never had the experience of going outside and understanding what nature was out there. When you think about that, that's crazy to kind of comprehend. I mean, I don't know what the situation is like in other countries and other places, whether it changes rurally or urban. But you just think, wow, you leave school not knowing the name of your local birds. If you're not able to notice those changes locally, where's your starting point? And I think that's that's a big issue with kind of the education system. But again, there is positives from it. We've recently just launched the kind of natural history GCSE in the UK. So hopefully that will go from strength to strength. But again, it would be nice to see it widely distributed throughout the curriculum and it not be kind of a specialized issue. And I think at Rohampton we've we've kind of done that very well in having modules that anybody can take throughout the university who even might be slightly interested in climate change or environmental awareness, but they can take that leap. It's quite beginner-friendly, and they can kind of learn with other students who are in the same boat. It makes it a nice environment for people to learn about these issues as opposed to being just something physiology students or just something for the science students, or you know, and so on.

Gabor Sarlos 25:42

Right. It's interesting you bring up the example of the natural history education because just in the last episode, uh a couple of weeks back, in our podcast, uh Kirsty Crawford from the Meran Conservation Society spoke about this, and she also underlined how important a step that was in helping young people be familiar, understand some of the fundamental things that surround them, and not only understand that, but then be able to relate and even live within those contexts. It is so important. Now, speaking of young people, I I wanted to ask you a little bit to talk about the London Wildlife Trust and your work there as a youth project coordinator. What does it entail and what are the challenges you find in your work there?

Jonathan Nobrega 26:33

Yeah, so the Lord the Wildlife Trust, our organization who have done some great work with young people in terms of improving the diversity of people who get involved. They run a traineeship for young people, kind of 18 to 25, when they leave school to get into the space. And they've kind of outstripped a lot of other organizations in terms of their diversity and the kind of the innovative nature that they run it. So I was very excited to go and work for them in a new project called the Keeping It World Collective, which basically just runs two events every month for anyone aged 16 to 30 to get involved with nature, is completely free. So it breaks down that barrier, and they're largely centrally located in London. So again, breaking down the kind of geographic access barrier as well. And the events that we run stem from a whole go from arts, we do kind of arts-based activities right through to the kind of scientific, more kind of nature identification side of things, but also the activities focused on upskilling people who are interested in nature and how they can then go and perhaps write a letter to their MP or join a local campaign organization. So it offers a lot of hope at a fairly and kind of reduces the barriers of entry. So it was a really excited, innovative project to be on. Yeah, it was really exciting to be a part of. Um, and in terms of the challenges, I think again, you know, a lot of these organizations suffer from the same issue here in the sense that when they bring new kind of diverse people and talent into the organization, they can sometimes feel unsupported in the sense that your organization thoroughly represents the communities that they're trying to attract. And I think that can sometimes lead to a trust issue with the organizations and the young people getting involved with it because there's a lot of chat in the environmental space about EDI, improving EDI, improving EDI, improving EDI. And I think organizations across the kind of spectrum have this issue, but there's a point that becomes like a tick bock exercise for people who want to get involved with it. And I think it's now easily organizations to look inwards, make their organizations diverse in the first instance, and addressing the culture within them to then make young people then identify with the organization and feel even more comfortable to get involved with it. As I was talking about earlier, identity formation is a big thing. And a lot of environmental organizations are guilty of having historical legacies that very unpalatable in the 21st century. If you look at some of the activities of the WWF or name a lot, but they they wouldn't sit comfortably in in this time now, especially for young people who are very switched on in terms of social justice issues. So I think if they address those and diversify their organizations, again, that would then be a big step for young people to kind of see themselves fit in and to feel more comfortable within that space. But it's about kind of addressing the kind of the difference from the people who might be working low-level within the organization to the ones working high, and for them to kind of acknowledge that and to address the culture within it.

Gabor Sarlos 30:11

Are you referring to some differences in interests and differences in views between large, established, nationally, internationally well-known organizations and others who are more on the ground, smaller, maybe with well, definitely with less resources in their pocket.

Jonathan Nobrega 30:33

Absolutely, yeah. I mean, the grass there's there are loads of grassroots organizations that are doing great work in acknowledging this because they know that this is the situation. They can't slip into an event organized by one of these long-standing organizations. It's not made for them. There's a good cluster of grassroots organizations doing the work. I think it's about linking the two, or kind of alternatively, giving them the power and the funds and the money to make them big enough to then make to then become a competitor in the space of the kind of environmental sector more widely. So it can be it can be much more open.

Gabor Sarlos 31:13

So, what would be your advice to a young man or woman whom you meet and they ask you about, okay, I'm interested in doing something about the local community where I live because I'm appalled by how construction is eating up green spaces, and uh I'm interested in in doing something about it, but what should I do? What should be my first step?

Jonathan Nobrega 31:41

I think first of all, is acknowledging that you have the power to do so and that you are possibly the best place person to make that change. I think sometimes young people feel discouraged from the first instance that they they feel like they're not big enough to kind of make the impact. But if you look, you know, people like Greta Thumberg, look how young she was at school, she's now well known across the world. You know, it's that it's young people are wanting to be heard, and if you make that step, then you very well can make that change. So it's about having that confidence within yourself that you're very much needed and wanted in the space. And I think it's definitely identifying your issue, wherever that be locally, and then just going about that in the right way, not being afraid to ask for advice because there's plenty out there, not being afraid to be a disruptor either, because as I say, there's a very traditional way of doing things within the sector more widely, and if you're a disruptor, you become much more a breath of fresh air, shall I say? You're you're you're offering a new perspective that perhaps wouldn't be known otherwise. So just having that confidence, that belief, and connecting with other young people who are in the same boat as you, I think you'll go on and make a world of difference.

Gabor Sarlos 32:58

If you want to make change, much of it really depends on how ready you are to collaborate with others, right? For sure.

Jonathan Nobrega 33:07

Collaboration is everything because you'll realize the environmental sector is you know, we're just clustering it in one bubble here, but everyone has an interest in the specific aspect of it. So the more and more people you talk to, the more and more links you can create, and the the better it will be for you to reach your overall goal.

Gabor Sarlos 33:27

I would like to break our discussion a little bit and invite to a game. So this is now episode 15 of our series of uh podcasts, and I would like to bring a couple of terms or even just one word, all starting with the 15th letter of the alphabet, which is letter O. So uh I'll be telling these words or terms, and I would be curious to hear from you in in about one minute maximum. What associations do these terms or words bring to you in relation to sustainability? What comes to your mind? What uh action, problem, dilemma, innovation, whatever uh pops uh up in your mind. Okay, you ready?

Jonathan Nobrega 34:11

Let's go.

Gabor Sarlos 34:12

All right, so the first one is oxygen. Of course, what else could the first word be with letter O? It's oxygen. What comes to your mind? Oxygen.

Jonathan Nobrega 34:23

Well, I think for me, I'm thinking of it from the environmental humanities point of view, in terms of who talks the most in the sector, who has the most oxygen, who has the most power when it comes to saying these things. I think it's very, you know, very important to know that. Very important to know where you belong in the space. So who holds the oxygen and how your oxygen can make the most impact within within the environment as well. Use it wisely.

Gabor Sarlos 34:50

Okay, now that's a very interesting point, and I'm glad you brought the humanities perspective in here. Excellent, thanks. Yeah, sure. So the next one is overconsumption.

Jonathan Nobrega 35:03

It's a tricky one because I think it's something we're all guilty of, right? We're all we're all guilty of you know marketing, we're all guilty of advertisements and you know wanting to have the nicest things. But I think it's about, as I said, as I was kind of referring to you earlier, kind of making that kind of frugalism and that kind of prudent lifestyle look much more cool than it is already, and you know, leaning to individualism, saying that you are perfect as you are, you don't really necessarily have to consume something that you are told to consume for that benefit. It's a very tricky one to kind of change, but I think it's definitely something we as a society have to kind of lure towards and to kind of see something as ideal as opposed to consuming and consuming and consuming, because that's just gonna lead us to a to a tragic end case.

Gabor Sarlos 35:57

Okay, thank you. And the last one are the oceans. What comes to your mind here?

Jonathan Nobrega 36:07

Oceans, wetlands and kind of water as something that is incredibly powerful, even more powerful so in terms of helping the environment, but we think of kind of trees and rainforest. People think of trees and kind of these ecosystems as being sucking up CO2 and this kind of thing. But the oceans and wetlands more widely actually do that more so. So I think it's something that we can tend to ignore every now and then because we're just not used to being in or around it, because otherwise, obviously, we wouldn't be able to breathe. But it's something that we inadvertently impact. And I think the best way to kind of to kind of get ourselves to think more about the ocean is by just engaging with it. If you could, if you go to the seaside, if you go and do some sport out on the ocean, it makes you think of the problems there, and they become very real, especially on our coastline in the UK. There's a lot of kind of trash that goes into it. There's a big conversation at the moment about the kind of sewage companies, and once you see that happen with your own eyes, it makes you much more turned on with the kind of issues the oceans are facing. Yeah, oceans just go to the sea, observe yourself, and it'll be something that you'll be into just as much as going to your local nature reserve. But it's something we can sometimes forget about as a wider ecosystem.

Gabor Sarlos 37:33

And that is such a valid point, what you just mentioned here about seeing things for yourself and then realizing you know the real issues. It there is nothing like that. You reading something on social media or a TikTok video or pieces of news from radio, it's nothing compared to seeing, experiencing things for yourself and learning both for the good and the bad. I mean, as you said, a day in nature can revive one's soul and body incredibly, but seeing deploration, on the other hand, in nature at the ocean, in wetlands, wherever, is something which can really be shocking and um very uh disturbing in a way. Well, thank you. You were very good in in this game, so uh thank you for for reacting promptly and and with so much insight and empathy on these topics. Now, in the last part of our conversation, I would like to take my academic and and employability hat on a little bit and ask your insights into green careers and um making well having a job in uh related to sustainability, and here I refer to sustainability in a wider sense of the word, so not necessarily in environment as such, but in a wider range of issues. What does it take for someone to be able to enter these areas of work and and and what makes a good sustainability professional? Can can you share what you have seen and what you've experienced and what you have done yourself?

Jonathan Nobrega 39:16

Yeah, for sure. I think first it's important to kind of address the fact that a green career is such a huge, it's literally any career that could have a sustainability element attached to it. So it's quite difficult to talk about in such a broad sense. But it's also great to say that even if you're into law, even if you're into business, even if you're into I don't know, history, sustainability can be touched to any of them and it will be very directly relevant for you as an individual within those sectors, and we need your kind of support from whatever sector you're coming from. So if you're worried about I might not have the best expertise to become a sustainability professional, you do already just by working whatever space or field that you're in. I mean, in terms of green careers, we've been told all the time that it's a growing sector. You think of kind of the technologies that are developing in kind of fighting and tackling climate change. So there are jobs there available as well. It's the fastest growing sector you'll hear this very, very regularly. So the jobs are there, but at the same time, it can be very difficult to get into. Obviously, I kind of focus and specialise in kind of conservation kind of field, especially particularly within the charity sector. It can be a lot of hours of volunteering to get into the industry in the first place, which can be very challenging. And again, that kind of discriminates against those who perhaps wouldn't have the time and the the the um or could afford to invest that time into an organization. So it can be difficult in certain pockets of in-green sectors to kind of get your foot in the door, but at the same time, there is recognition of that. So if you are looking to get into conservation per se, definitely do a little bit of research on Google because there are funding opportunities and even scholarships, for example, that can kind of help you to get that step up, to kind of get put that barrier down for you. And again, it kind of comes to talking to people and the connections you make whilst you're in the sector to kind of get your first foot in the door. And a lot of it, as always, is the case, is getting to know people. It certainly was the case for me, getting to know people, having those conversations, and then you're kind of recommended and recommended to a point that you get the job, whatever that may be. And again, this isn't the same for every single sector, what should I say, like mini sector within the main green sector, so it can be different across the board. But what is important to know is that there is a need for you, I think, in the first sense. And if you have that passion, follow it, and you will get there eventually.

Gabor Sarlos 42:08

I wanted to pick up on one thing. You spoke about volunteering, and just recently uh a student asked me about the volunteering opportunity, and I asked her, so what is your concern about it? Because she was not fully clear whether she wanted to apply for that role or not. It was a volunteering, non-paid role. And she said, My biggest concern is that it doesn't really add much, so I would be doing it instead of a paid job or instead of my studies, and just because I'm interested, I'm not sure it gives a lot to me. And then I explained from my perspective what I find valuable uh inputs and valuable pieces of experience from being a volunteer in the in a role, especially if you are passionate about that area. But looking from your perspective, what would you have responded to this student? Why should she take this volunteering role? What's in it for her?

Jonathan Nobrega 43:04

If you're volunteering in something, it already proves your passion for it than a paid position. Because you're putting your own time, your own energy into something, but you're not gonna get anything back financially full. But what you will get back is the skills you're gonna talk to people that are gonna be have similar passions to you, and then that's gonna lead you on to the next step, the next step, and the next step. So, and I think a lot of people are kind of put off about volunteering to an extent because they think, oh, maybe I won't fit in, maybe it'll just be maybe it's a little bit too far, I don't have time for it. And I certainly had those same thoughts myself. But once you do it for the first time, again, you go to a volunteering session and someone recommend something else. Oh, you're interested in I don't know, endangered turtle species in such and such a place. I know this person who does this, and then before you know it, you're on a paid position with someone who is looking at these endangered. Within whatever country it may be, it is definitely a springboard for you to kind of get to that next step, but also in and of itself, it proves that passion that someone else might not have gone out of their way to get on the and they won't have it on their CD. So it's certainly something that is worth investing. It doesn't have to be huge chunks of time within yourself as an individual. All students are very busy, lots of part-time work, lots of studies, lots of exams. There's a huge amount of pressure on the student. So even if it's just once a week, even once a month, it's something that would set you apart on someone else who didn't do that. And it also is worthy of proving your passions in that space.

Gabor Sarlos 44:41

I see. Well, this was a very good sales pitch for a volunteering role. So thank you very much. I wish you were there when this uh student of uh mine asked me, but uh I think I didn't do very bad, but definitely you were more convincing, I think. All right, so the last question I have to you is somewhat looking at the future, and what I would like to ask is that if you had things your way, what would the next, let's say, five years look like for you in professional terms and from the perspective of sustainability and working in this field?

Jonathan Nobrega 45:21

I mean, five years is a very short time.

Gabor Sarlos 45:24

We can make it ten, or I'm I'm used to politicians speaking, so five years is a lot. So instead, let's take the scientific and uh global planetary approach 100 years.

Jonathan Nobrega 45:38

For sure. I mean, the end goal for me, like the kind of utopia that this environmental space could achieve, is that as I say, all the organizations that operate within it are reflective of the communities that they're trying to outreach. I think that will definitely make much more change within the climate change issue and through our society more commonly. But again, as I said earlier, it's about breaking down that stigma about talking about climate change and environmental issues in the first place. So if it's raised a lot more across the kind of cultural spaces where we find ourselves normally, and it's something that can be weaved into discussions, then that's what's going to make the impetus for change. And it needs to be clipped on to absolutely everything we do day to day with in life. As if we think of something, you know, if you go to the shop and you buy a bike of potatoes for 70p, you're thinking of that as the issue for yourself. Are we also thinking of the kind of environmental aspect it would have, the kind of damage it could do for the environment, the kind of benefit it could do for the environment? If you can have that way of thinking and everyone is encouraged to do the same and feel comfortable to do so, then it's going to make change on a rapid scale, which we're perhaps struggling to do as much at the moment. But diversity really is at the core of everything within this sector, and and I will keep preaching this uh throughout the rest of my career because if you don't have the right perspectives, if you don't have everyone on board, then your change will always be limited. What what I say all the time is if you plant loads of flowers and the next day someone tramples on them because you didn't engage them and they were unaware of it, then your time is is effectively worth nothing. So it's about engaging other people, about letting them know, and about making them feel comfortable in the space.

Gabor Sarlos 47:31

Lovely. That is a beautiful ending, and and I couldn't agree more. And in this journey, my one of my pet professional areas, communications has a very important uh role to play as well, especially taking your perspective into account as well, and diversifying communication, its language, its methods, its channels to make sure that we can engage a much wider group of people, everyone. That is a big uh challenge. So thank you very much for uh joining me on this podcast today, uh, Jonathan. It was lovely to talk to you and hear a young dynamic person's perspective on critically important issues related to sustainability, climate change, and uh how to bring this topic into the forefront for everyone, not only some selected or limited audiences. Thank you all for listening to our podcast today. As I said at the start, this is the last episode before our summer break. We will be back early September with our new and renewed episodes. If you liked it, make sure to follow it on your favorite podcast platform, share it with your friends, and invite others to listen to it as well. You can also listen to our earlier episodes, and feel free to send me a message. Who would you like me to invite as our next guest? Help us get the message through. We all need to act on sustainability now. This was Gabor Sarlos with Ready Steady Green. Bye for now.